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RE: Sad day in America - rayray - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 10:59 AM)fenders53 Wrote:(05-30-2022, 09:58 AM)rayray Wrote:Sounds good. So to there is nothing we can do regarding the weapon of choice for the best kill events? Got a solution we might actually start with or are you content to validate my last post? Most won't care in a week. We agree people are crazy. I'm not OK with that. I know it's not your concern if your kids are grown. It is the nations problem. We are supposed to be better than the examples of other countries with high murder rates. They aren't the standard I hope for.(05-30-2022, 07:48 AM)fenders53 Wrote: There is one more common dominator. No matter what one believes the problem is, we will do nothing significant about it. Politicians will see to that. Their minions will line up behind them and settle for nothing.
I still believe it starts at the home and how one is raised. Sure, you'll always have that "kid" that is just bad, and hopefully will grow out of it, but for the most part a lot of our social ills can be prevented at home with proper values taught.
A good portion of my family grew up in extreme poverty, but no one turned out to be murderers, they grew up as hard working people because how they were raised.
whoa--take it easy!
just because i said it starts at the home doesn't mean i don't think there's other things that can't be done--but if one looks at the government to solve their problems they'll be overwhelmingly disappointed, imho.
RE: Sad day in America - fenders53 - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 11:20 AM)rayray Wrote:I am getting frustrated if that isn't obvious. The problem doesn't appear to be making any attempt to reverse course on its own. So I guess I am overwhelming disappointed in the government making no some small attempt at a better path forward. They prefer to bicker. It's their one skill they have mastered.(05-30-2022, 10:59 AM)fenders53 Wrote:(05-30-2022, 09:58 AM)rayray Wrote:Sounds good. So to there is nothing we can do regarding the weapon of choice for the best kill events? Got a solution we might actually start with or are you content to validate my last post? Most won't care in a week. We agree people are crazy. I'm not OK with that. I know it's not your concern if your kids are grown. It is the nations problem. We are supposed to be better than the examples of other countries with high murder rates. They aren't the standard I hope for.(05-30-2022, 07:48 AM)fenders53 Wrote: There is one more common dominator. No matter what one believes the problem is, we will do nothing significant about it. Politicians will see to that. Their minions will line up behind them and settle for nothing.
I still believe it starts at the home and how one is raised. Sure, you'll always have that "kid" that is just bad, and hopefully will grow out of it, but for the most part a lot of our social ills can be prevented at home with proper values taught.
A good portion of my family grew up in extreme poverty, but no one turned out to be murderers, they grew up as hard working people because how they were raised.
whoa--take it easy!
just because i said it starts at the home doesn't mean i don't think there's other things that can't be done--but if one looks at the government to solve their problems they'll be overwhelmingly disappointed, imho.
RE: Sad day in America - rayray - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 02:26 PM)fenders53 Wrote:(05-30-2022, 11:20 AM)rayray Wrote:I am getting frustrated if that isn't obvious. The problem doesn't appear to be making any attempt to reverse course on its own. So I guess I am overwhelming disappointed in the government making no some small attempt at a better path forward. They prefer to bicker. It's their one skill they have mastered.(05-30-2022, 10:59 AM)fenders53 Wrote:(05-30-2022, 09:58 AM)rayray Wrote:Sounds good. So to there is nothing we can do regarding the weapon of choice for the best kill events? Got a solution we might actually start with or are you content to validate my last post? Most won't care in a week. We agree people are crazy. I'm not OK with that. I know it's not your concern if your kids are grown. It is the nations problem. We are supposed to be better than the examples of other countries with high murder rates. They aren't the standard I hope for.(05-30-2022, 07:48 AM)fenders53 Wrote: There is one more common dominator. No matter what one believes the problem is, we will do nothing significant about it. Politicians will see to that. Their minions will line up behind them and settle for nothing.
I still believe it starts at the home and how one is raised. Sure, you'll always have that "kid" that is just bad, and hopefully will grow out of it, but for the most part a lot of our social ills can be prevented at home with proper values taught.
A good portion of my family grew up in extreme poverty, but no one turned out to be murderers, they grew up as hard working people because how they were raised.
whoa--take it easy!
just because i said it starts at the home doesn't mean i don't think there's other things that can't be done--but if one looks at the government to solve their problems they'll be overwhelmingly disappointed, imho.
i know--i'm frustrated with our politicians on a mass scale in a lot of different subjects
they solve nothing other then getting all of us deeper into debt
that's one thing they're all good at--accumulating more debt and giving themselves bigger raises with great benefits on the backs of all taxpayers
ugh--i'm going to have a drink--if i smoked cigars i'd smoke a cigar lol
RE: Sad day in America - NilesMike - 05-30-2022
I don't think there is anything that can be done except on an individual basis. Large scale? Forget about it.
Not sure where the root of it is but try being a teacher these days. Kid gets in trouble, parent backs the kid and teacher gets a boatload of administrative grief. When I was a kid, if a teacher caught me doing something bad, my problems didn't even begin until I got home. My parents never hit me, my Dad never even yelled at me. One time though he looked at me so disappointed, that was all it took, no words were needed.
Kids now fear nothing. Not their teacher, parents, neighbors or police. This is where we are, with a bunch of lazy parents who want a village to raise their kids.
RE: Sad day in America - rayray - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 06:10 PM)NilesMike Wrote: I don't think there is anything that can be done except on an individual basis. Large scale? Forget about it.
Not sure where the root of it is but try being a teacher these days. Kid gets in trouble, parent backs the kid and teacher gets a boatload of administrative grief. When I was a kid, if a teacher caught me doing something bad, my problems didn't even begin until I got home. My parents never hit me, my Dad never even yelled at me. One time though he looked at me so disappointed, that was all it took, no words were needed.
Kids now fear nothing. Not their teacher, parents, neighbors or police. This is where we are, with a bunch of lazy parents who want a village to raise their kids.
when my niece was fairly young, about 11 or 12 she was angry about something and picked up a rock that my wife had on the table, she made a motion like she was going to throw it through our glass backdoor. i was like whoa, what going on there? she says i'm so angry i'm going to throw this rock through your door!! i said, you throw that effin' rock through my glass door i'm going to hit you so effin' hard your parents are going to feel it for weeks! and i was fairly loud and serious--she put the rock down and apologized.
years ago, her mother when she was married to my brother--i don't know what happened but she laid back and full cold cocked my brother right in the face--i was stunned and stepped back--i let them alone. later that day we were going to doylestown, pa for some reason, on the way back she was sitting in the passenger seat, my brother in the backseat, and i just couldn't help myself, i said hey "insert name" why'd you hit my brother like that?? she looked at me and said he looked at me funny....i said, oh yea, i'm looking at ya funny right now you wanna hit me?? she just looked...i said you wanna hit? the eff you do, cause woman or no you hit me i'm laying you the eff out right hear right now, you ever raise your hands again to my brother and i'll smack you...you understand?? she never laid her hands on my brother again. she knew i was serious as a heart attack.
now we go over to my sister, her and bf got into an argument, he pushed her out of a car--i got word to him don't come around no more, cause you're going to have some real problems--they're no longer together maybe 10 to 12 years now--they were talking recently, just the other week--he tells her you know your brother, i'm still scared of him, he scared me then and i'm still afraid of him now.
growing up if i did something wrong there were consequences, and sometimes those consequences were brutal
sometimes it helps to understand if you do something wrong there will be a reaction, call it fear, call it respect, call it knowing right from wrong or the very least learning right from wrong.
RE: Sad day in America - fenders53 - 05-31-2022
(05-30-2022, 06:10 PM)NilesMike Wrote: I don't think there is anything that can be done except on an individual basis. Large scale? Forget about it.It's true that is much of the problem. My parents were strict. I tried that with my daughter and it didn't work so well from age 12-17. She was trouble and afraid of nothing. It was VERY painful but it seemed to pay off in the end because she turned out fine. Great work ethic and loves me very much. The base morals were taught early and that seemed to matter eventually. I was saddened to read in the paper the middle school attended is now considered out of control and violent. It was a bedroom community with a few neighboring towns with inner city problems (small by Chicago standards but they had a few hoods). It was just chocking to read. Like you said, the teachers are afraid to do much because they face parents, and Administrators that want to ignore it rather than address it. I can't imagine what would have happened to me if I had thrown a punch at a teacher and cursed them.
Not sure where the root of it is but try being a teacher these days. Kid gets in trouble, parent backs the kid and teacher gets a boatload of administrative grief. When I was a kid, if a teacher caught me doing something bad, my problems didn't even begin until I got home. My parents never hit me, my Dad never even yelled at me. One time though he looked at me so disappointed, that was all it took, no words were needed.
Kids now fear nothing. Not their teacher, parents, neighbors or police. This is where we are, with a bunch of lazy parents who want a village to raise their kids.
As far as a teenager executing children after planning it on the internet. That is pure evil and I do expect an attempt from the village to slow it down. I am just not OK with saying they are crazy and throwing up my hands. Not the world I want to live in while remaining silent. I guess I need to run for office but it finally happened and I currently despise both major parties, and so far the potential candidates for 2024. I will keep the faith I guess.
RE: Sad day in America - NilesMike - 05-31-2022
Somehow, the system is always to blame. How many red flags in this kid's story?
https://news.yahoo.com/arrested-weed-12-years-old-130001471.html
RE: Sad day in America - rayray - 05-31-2022
This seems strange to say, but I’m going to say it—all these murdering shooting them up realistically AI type games, take a angry teenager that has literally spent hours upon hours killing on a video game, make them angry, I mean full of hate, and give that kid a AR, see what he does if he doesn’t understand right from wrong, or doesn’t care right from wrong.
See what happens
I’m not saying this Texas kid played video games—but I wouldn’t be surprised imho
RE: Sad day in America - fenders53 - 05-31-2022
(05-31-2022, 11:13 AM)rayray Wrote: This seems strange to say, but I’m going to say it—all these murdering shooting them up realistically AI type games, take a angry teenager that has literally spent hours upon hours killing on a video game, make them angry, I mean full of hate, and give that kid a AR, see what he does if he doesn’t understand right from wrong, or doesn’t care right from wrong.Do you think the government should control video game content, or is that too much government? We all heard the vid game talking points decades ago when this problem got real. Almost all the Soldiers I led played violent video games. Not one of them turned out to be a murderer. I decided that video games don't kill people. Change one word in that sentence and we have a talking point you know well. We can do this until we get tired of typing.
See what happens
I’m not saying this Texas kid played video games—but I wouldn’t be surprised imho
RE: Sad day in America - fenders53 - 05-31-2022
I am enjoying the conversation. I am not trying to brawl. The last two mass murderers have me feeling low. It really does seemso hopeless.
RE: Sad day in America - rayray - 06-01-2022
(05-31-2022, 12:40 PM)fenders53 Wrote: I am enjoying the conversation. I am not trying to brawl. The last two mass murderers have me feeling low. It really does seemso hopeless.
No government control--I think it falls on the parents, the adults to say enough is enough in regards to video games.
I don't believe a "violent" video game can make someone into a murderer; however, I do believe it can make the wrong person feel numb to pulling the trigger, maybe "help" them get to that point of numbness sooner than later.
I really don't know. What we do know is that violence has a higher probability to breeding more violence, then growing up in a more normal/stable home.
There were a lot of major red flags with this 18 year Texas kid.
It's all complicated, very complicated.
RE: Sad day in America - ken-do-nim - 06-01-2022
Lots of mass shootings since the "biggie": https://www.newsweek.com/there-have-already-been-17-mass-shootings-week-since-uvalde-1711654. 17!
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?page=9. 233 mass shootings so far this year. So it's at least 2 a day in this country. Many go unreported nationally.
I think we are all numb to the "average" shooting at this point.