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(01-08-2018, 02:05 PM)rayray Wrote: what do most of these crypto's make? What kind of products? What do they sell? What's their service? Who is their customer base and why? How long has this company been in business? Why should I put money in Bitcoin vs Gold? Why buy Ripple vs V? 

Well, it depends on which crypto you're talking about, while a lot of them are pretty similar they still have different functions and are designed for different things. What do they make? Well for one, the majority of cryptos (I noticed that bitcoin is not one of these anymore) allow for pretty much free and instant delivery of money to anywhere in the world.

Say I need to send $100 from Europe to the USA. My bank will charge me about $15 to do that, maybe $20. Then they will exchange it to dollars at a rate that is 1.5% lower than the current market rate. So I'll be paying between 16.5% and 21.5% in transfer fees and the transfer will take 3-4 days.

I could use Paypal. Where I'll pay 2-3% extra for the currency conversion and maybe 5% as transaction fees, so a total of 7-8% and it's almost instant.

Or I could use crypto where I'd pay something like $0.02 as a transaction fee, and if the receiver wants to change it to USD then he would pay about 0.2% for the exchange fee. If I wouldn't have crypto and needed to do the EUR -> crypto then that would be another 0.2% or so. And this would be just as fast as paypal.

Then there are cryptos who do this completely anonymously. And like it or not, privacy is a big thing for a lot of people. There are those who do it in a completely untraceable way... imagine the uses (not always legal :p) with that. How about using these wallets for online gaming... lot's of games have all sorts of micropayments. Instead of plugging in your credit card (where the company receiving the money always pays a fee) how about you just have a browser extension where you upload money and then you can use that to fund all the purchases in any of the games you play? Less fees, no need to put your credit card number anywhere etc. The banks are already looking to use these platforms internally because it would save them so much money, so why shouldn't we?

Once again, I don't really see these as investments, more like gambling. And I'm almost certain that at some point, one way or another, I'll lose a bit of money because of something like a transaction to a wrong adress or an exchange just disappearing etc. But the technology, and some of these coins (by no means all of them) have potential. Not potential to completely replace the current system but rather to offer more attractive ways of doing some things.
I guess I can't wrap my head around cryptocurrency as a whole because in theory the use is a great idea, but yet I don't see, at least the people I know, getting crypto's to use as a currency but rather as an investment. Cryptocurrency is almost a misnomer because they are all different with not all of them meant to be used as a currency. And if used as a currency, me personally, I don't want my currency fluctuating drastically, I like my currency evaluation stable. A dollar in my pocket to use is still worth a dollar the next day, sure I didn't make any money but my purchasing power is still a dollar and that's what I want in my currency. I also don't want to mess with digital/hard/soft wallets, I like my money in a FDIC backed account.

Are any of you guys actively using cryptocurrencies in daily life? To buy gas? Groceries? A cup of coffee? To pay rent or your mortgage?
(01-09-2018, 06:01 AM)rayray Wrote: Are any of you guys actively using cryptocurrencies in daily life? To buy gas? Groceries? A cup of coffee? To pay rent or your mortgage?

I personally don't use it yet. It's possible though. I've seen online services (like.. I bought a subscription for a VPN two days ago and they accepted bitcoin as a payment), I've seen grocery stores and cafes/bars in that accept it. You'd be surprised at the amount of places where you can pay with it nowadays. So out of the things you've listed... haven't seen a gas station that accepts it (though I wouldn't be surprised if one exists) but yes the rest you can do with it. Funny thing is, I can't do all of those in my city but I can do all of that within 200km. However I'll probably have to travel thousands of kilometers to find the first place that accepts dollars. Wink

And just to be precise, those places only accept bitcoin, haven't seen any other cryptos being accepted. But as I said earlier, I don't view them (at least not bitcoin) as something that could replace our whole finance system in my lifetime. But to replace small parts of it... sure.

You have to remember that this is a whole new thing. Bitcoin has been around for less than 10 years, other cryptos for much shorter time. Fiat money has been used for over a thousand years. Now I'm not saying that we will switch from Fiat to cryptos... but I'm saying that at in the past we have switched from the exchange of goods to using precious metals and then again from those precious metals to a piece of paper with a number on it.
(01-09-2018, 06:01 AM)rayray Wrote: A dollar in my pocket to use is still worth a dollar the next day, sure I didn't make any money but my purchasing power is still a dollar and that's what I want in my currency.

But this is simply a question of the point of view, isn't it? To you a dollar is a dollar. To me a dollar is 0.838 euros, yesterday it was 0.835 euros, a year ago it was 0.947 euros. :p Currencies fluctuate too, everyone knows it's happening but not many people pay attention to it. And you the fluctuations, even with such a huge currency pair as the USD and EUR, are actually quite drastic. (I've noticed this very well since I get paid in USD and spend in EUR)
I don't know if I'd consider Fiat price exchange rates as drastic as cryptocurrency price fluctuations. As a usable currency, cryptocurrency is not stable for everyday life purposes.

For something that was meant to be more efficient, private and less constrictive became a speculative investment. Very few people worldwide are using cryptocurrency as it was meant to be used.

Having said that, I also believe that the right way to invest is the way one feels most comfortable with, if that's what one likes and they get the results they want then that was the right decision.
All of the above is true. And right now I wouldn't really consider using cryptos as an everyday currency... simply because it's not ready for it yet. But it doesn't mean that the day won't come when they will be used for everyday purposes, not to replace fiat (I don't see that happening) but rather to compliment it. With time the technology should improve and hopefully the exchange rates will also stabilize to a more acceptable level.

I've made some decisions as to what I'll be going with. Though I still haven't made most of these purchases due to having to wait for account validation from the exchanges.

Monero ~25%
QASH ~25%
Bitcoin ~17%
Ethereum ~17%
Litecoin ~17%

Monero balance will be increasing slowly with the mining that is being done, however it's such a small increase that it alone won't unbalance this "portfolio". I still haven't decided what would be the appropriate timeframe to look at rebalancing.
Nowwe are starting to ask the important questions: "What is money?"

Is it a store of value? Is it a store of labor? (i.e., is it proof-of-state or proof-of-work) Or is  it a medium of trust (in the government)? Note that I am using money and currency interchangably here -- as any strong gold bulls will acknowledge that only gold is money and all the rest of the fiat world is just currency, a big difference. Or is "money" just a story that we tell ourselves?

To the questions posed earlier in the thread -- whats the point of these cryptos if you cant pay for a coffee or a mortgage -- its just a matter of time before the technology improves. Same questions were asked about email and exchange of information a couple of decades ago, horses-vs-cars about a century ago. Doesnt mean that technological improvement will not be able to overcome such problems. Technology improves at an exponential pace. Humans have always been terrible at guesstimating exponential growth due to evolutionary reasons.

The bottom is this: blockchains are an ability to exchange value just as the internet is an ability to exchange information. That should tell you everything there is to know about this technology and extrapolate as to how you envision the future.
I agree....Blockchain is the ability to record and exchange value, it's the digital ledger. Assuming that a crypto is a currencey, (we all know that not all so-called crpyptocurrencies or alt-coins are actual currencies, they might be something else) which adds to the confusion. I also believe that crypto's are here to stay but I'm in the camp that viable, strong governments will dictate what is the standard. Because, to be a legitimate every day currency it has to have stability. We're going to a moneyless society, eventually. The big and strong always win, and here I see the strong governments dictating what will be their viable currency, even if it's their crypto.
Finally my bitcoin transaction went through. I didn't get the allocations exactly where I wanted them, mainly due to the fluctuations in the price of the coins and the fact that I'm using a couple of differnet exchanges (just so I don't have all my eggs in one basket) And I decided to let go of bitcoin completely, I might transfer back to it at some point but currently I'm too skeptical about the network. (took me 7 days and over $20 to get my transactions through, a regular bank transfer would be faster and cheaper)

QASH ~40%
Monero ~30%
Litecoin ~15%
Ethereum ~15%
Good luck Crimson!

I'll admit I find the medium very interesting as I was reading a lot about it last night, again. One of my previous posts was a little harsh about the scammers and crooks, I should have clarified more clearly that I believe most are legit; however, being a decentralized industry lets very smart characters take advantage of the situation. In fact, that's one thing I have learned about reading this cryptocurrency sector is that there are A LOT of smart people with a few that really stand out above the crowd. Funny, last week as I was eating a brunch at one of my favorite diners a group of local business-owners were talking about crypto's, specifically Monero.

Yea, my brother-n-law was telling me some of his investments/exchanges would take a week or so to complete with an "x amount" of fees. He was very very excited taking his son for a ride to boot, I didn't have the heart to tell him I felt the time frame with those fee's was unacceptable, IMHO. I also didn't like how one of his investments keeps his investment locked up for almost a year. Years ago I had 25K locked up in a real estate deal and hated it, even though I'm a long term investor I do like having fairly instant access to my dollars.

It's also interesting how some of these crypto's and or investors come across as so anti-fiat yet talk about their value increases into some fiat rate? I find that odd. Why not relate to what you own as to what you own if you believe in that system? Worry about the exchange rates when or if the time comes to exchange that crypto into something else. I also notice a few crypto's poking holes into BTC's system referring to it as slow and expensive, found that interesting too since BTC is supposed to be the gold standard.

It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out and if I was a gambler other then the 2 to 4 dollars I play a month in the lotto I'd try it out for fun. Buying something that seems slow and possibly more expensive, then advised to store that digital investment on a hard wallet seems, I don't know, for something being the "new way" seems cumbersome and not as safe and efficient as having my funds in a regulated bank or brokerage account.

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