Home Depot, an ongoing discussion....

[fenders53]

Menards is ABSOLUTELY a direct competitor where they co-exist. Keep in mind what I share here is regionally anecdotal and my opinion. I am not a corporate insider and it would be inappropriate to share info if I was. That said, there are things I know to be true here, and suspect to be true nationally. I have a couple local HD stores, the one I work at is small for an HD. The two local Lowes would be slightly larger. The two Menards are HUGE superstores.

-In my small store that only does about $30M annual sales, it's very typical to have 3-4 live cashiers plus ASSISTED checkout. Don't ever say SELF Checkout Mike. We fixed our lighted sign lol. Usually two more employees at the customer service desk and they will check out small carts if asked. Usually one cashier in outdoor garden unless it "mulch give-away days". I even check a few people out through the day at my Millwork Design desk but I can't take cash. All Dept Supervisors and above are reguired to perform about 25 check outs a month, so we are never without a cashier if several cashiers were to call in sick. You have to be formally cashier trained to log on a register. That's a few days of training.

More observations.................

HD Associate training is best in the industry. Computer based and peer assisted OJT for less complex jobs. My millwork training is pretty substantial. I have taken about 50 computer based courses since March. Six- two hour distance learning sessions conducted live from Atlanta HQ by true experts. I am only Intermediate level certified and on the naughty list with a half dozen overdue computer classes. Advance Millworker Cert is next if I hang in there. It would be VERY easy to make big dollar mistakes the store has to eat if I didn't know what I was doing. I am the only full-time millworker. It's not good when the desk is not manned. When somebody tries to "wing it", the errors are expensive.

Point is HD attempts to man the floor with employees that have a clue what they are doing. That is NOT the case at my local Menard's. Their custom millwork customers come to me and tell me they were just told "something" couldn't be done, then I design it and order it in 20 minutes. I am curious how Lowes handles their training. I am going to drop by and ask their millworkers sometime just out of curiousity.

Menard's is the "Wal-Mart Supercenter" of home improvement. They are much cheaper on a lot of cheap product lines. They are not cheaper on quality brands. A smart shopper shows up with their current ad, or a custom quote and they won't leave disappointed. They generally leave with a better brand at about the same price.

Back to the point, I hope they don't continue to under staff my store like the past month. It is NOT a subtle difference. Intentionally not manning building materials dept is profoundly stupid. Too many customers are getting angry on a daily basis. Maybe just my store is experimenting with this? I can't help but think this is an attempt to make sure we beat quarterly sales/earnings. It's not hard to understand it's getting tougher every quarter.

Earnings report on Tuesday I think. I'll definitely listen to the CC with great interest. It will be on Youtube. If I have a prediction, it will be there is much discussion of tariff effects going forward. Our longtime CFO is retiring soon. Carol is a rockstar and won't be easily replaced.

[NilesMike]

(08-17-2019, 06:51 AM)fenders53 Wrote: -(A)In my small store that only does about $30M annual sales, it's very typical to have 3-4 live cashiers plus ASSISTED checkout. Don't ever say SELF Checkout Mike.



(B) I am curious how Lowes handles their training. I am going to drop by and ask their millworkers sometime just out of curiousity.




.

(A) I don't know the volume of my nearby stores (60056) but they seldom have that much up front staff. Their best dept. IMO is the tool rental.

(B) I may have told this Lowes story, I tell it to everyone. I wanted to buy a pre-hung stock steel door that was on sale and have Lowes install it. Get the price, a fee is charged for a guy to come out and verify the fit and deducted at the end. This guy comes out and tells my wife that the opening is not standard so we need a custom door. $700 more and 3 weeks lead time. I get home and measure, again. Spot on.

I call Lowes and they tell me they stick with their guy as he would be the installer as well. The manager would not listen or budge off the "he's our guy" position. I would have been out $700 extra and he would have furred the opening down to "make it fit".

I will never shop Lowes and will never invest in Lowes.

[fenders53]

(08-17-2019, 05:33 PM)NilesMike Wrote:

(08-17-2019, 06:51 AM)fenders53 Wrote: -(A)In my small store that only does about $30M annual sales, it's very typical to have 3-4 live cashiers plus ASSISTED checkout. Don't ever say SELF Checkout Mike.

     

 (B) I am curious how Lowes handles their training.  I am going to drop by and ask their millworkers sometime just out of curiousity.                  


 

.

(A)  I don't know the volume of my nearby stores (60056) but they seldom have that much up front staff. Their best dept. IMO is the tool rental.

(B) I may have told this Lowes story, I tell it to everyone. I wanted to buy a pre-hung stock steel door that was on sale and have Lowes install it. Get the price, a fee is charged for a guy to come out and verify the fit and deducted at the end. This guy comes out and tells my wife that the opening is not standard so we need a custom door. $700 more and 3 weeks lead time. I get home and measure, again. Spot on.

I call Lowes and they tell me they stick with their guy as he would be the installer as well. The manager would not listen or budge off the "he's our guy" position. I would have been out $700 extra and he would have furred the opening down to "make it fit".

I will never shop Lowes and will never invest in Lowes.

You may never use any of my investment advice but I can explain some of the nuances of your door measuring episode.  I deal with this issue constantly....

1.  The measure fee is reasonable.  The installer needs to be compensated if you aren't seriously shopping for a window or door.  You get it back if you buy a door and install.  It's not only a measurement but a site visit to see if something crazy is going on.  It happens with 100 year old houses.  I'm sure you are OK with this part.

2.  There are legit reasons to desire a smaller door.  The installer wants to be done quickly and be able to compensate for out of square and level for a professional install.  If the floor has multiple layers of flooring stacked high it's easier to get a smooth transition with a door that if firred up as required.  This is a 1 out of 5 thing.  It's understandable when the problem truly exists.  He is covering the risk at the customers expense making them buy a custom door 4 of 5 don't actually need.   

3.  Here's the big problem.  You can't measure a door properly without popping the casing trim. Without doing that there is no way to know the true dimensions of the rough opening.  They measure what they can see and assume there is no room to play with. Why?  Because if they pop trim there is about zero chance they can re-install without marring it some.  It's just a measure and now we have customers that want their trim repaired when they bought nothing but a cheap measure.  There are people unreasonable like that.

Here's how it works in my real world.  I get measures that require a custom door by 1/8 inch.  Yeah that is ridiculous.  If the customer desires a door that is very custom anyway we just roll with the stupidity because the price difference is minimal.  If not I call the installer out.  I tell them the customer will waive minor trim damage for an accurate measure, or they will pop trim themselves and give me a real measurement.  That should embarrass them and it usually does.

I only sell about 6 measures a week in my little store.  My installer is re-measuring two doors on Monday because I called BS.  The customer would not have known the difference, but that doesn't matter to me. I will do this every week if I have to.  The day I am required to rip people off to get along will be my last day at HD.

[NilesMike]

1) No problem conceptually, however tons of businesses come out and give free estimates on jobs that take a lot more time than measuring a rough opening.

2) Not my problem as to their inefficiency, they are setting the price for the install. Easy ones, tough ones already factored in.

3) I popped the trim, measured and reinstalled trim. No problem.

My carpenter nephew installed the stock door and storm door in a couple of hours.

[fenders53]

(08-17-2019, 10:21 PM)NilesMike Wrote: 1) No problem conceptually, however tons of businesses come out and give free estimates on jobs that take a lot more time than measuring a rough opening.

2) Not my problem as to their inefficiency, they are setting the price for the install. Easy ones, tough ones already factored in.

3) I popped the trim, measured and reinstalled trim. No problem.

My carpenter nephew installed the stock door and storm door in a couple of hours.

It's a supply-demand thing here.  Good ecoomies cause that.  It's VERY hard to find somebody to install doors here, or most anything else for that matter.  Not everybody has a carpenter nephew.  I can install my own door.  I think my installer charges about 1/3 too much.  IMO he is recovering the part he has to pay HD for the hookup.  He does outsatnading work.  14 completed measures dropped on my desk just this morning.  He was behind on those too.  I have 15-20 doors in my storeroom waiting for him to install.  He's easily a month behind now.  He was six weeks behind most of the year.  If you were my customer he wouldn't care even if a little if you walked.  I'm the one that has to listen to you when I deliver the message.  I hate it, and that is why I try to keep a leash on him.  He jumped through the hoops and got HD legal.  I have begged some small contractors to do the work and offer some competition.  None have taken that step because they are busy too and don't need to pay HD a finders fee for work. 

Anyway, be as angry as you like at Lowes.  HD is doing the exact same thing.

[NilesMike]

HD has been enfuego!

[fenders53]

(08-29-2019, 03:45 PM)NilesMike Wrote: HD has been enfuego!

They are indeed.  My Dept is crazy busy because it's fall.  I've seriously only threatened to quit once this week due to under staffing so things are looking up. 

[fenders53]

Haven't updated this thread in awhile. I verified yesterday that so far no HD store has been closed for the virus. It wouldn't be legal to share corporate numbers if I knew them (of course I don't). For those who are long, the following info is public with a little research. Stores are running shortened hours. On average they are open 3 HRs less per day, and the employees don't go home when we close early.. That may change as new schedules are made but so far no. Employee costs will definitely be up the next quarter or two. Every hourly employee got a $50-$100 weekly raise, and one to two extra weeks of additional sick leave which will be paid out in cash if you don't use it. (double leave for employees over age 65 which isn't many). That's a chunk of money.

I am going to guess they will trim forward earnings estimates, but get through this as well as a recessionary economy will allow. In normal times HD busy season starts now.

[NilesMike]

HD up nearly 60% off its lows.

WOW

[fenders53]

(04-27-2020, 10:12 AM)NilesMike Wrote: HD up nearly 60% off its lows.

WOW

Its pretty nuts.  15% of my store's employees took off a few weeks or more off for the CV.  That's OK, but it's painful for the rest of us.  Other than temporary excessive employee costs, they are doing more than fine IMO.  One thing I know for sure is I just had my best sales day in about five months.  Mostly bored people from IL sneaking across the river... seriously. 

[fenders53]

Not like I am privvy to corporate level finance but I see my district numbers so now that earnings are posted it's nothing like insider info sharing. HD earnings were exactly what I expected. Business is nuts and very elevated employee costs to offset it. The older employees are paid full wages to just stay home for 5-6 weeks and they pick the dates. The rest of us getting 20% weekly bonuses so we won't be jealous of others that are laid off. Next quarter is Christmas for HD and Lowes. We are crushing sales. I don't believe it was intentional but this has been a big transfer of revenue from shut down non-essential small Biz to big box. Q3 and Q4 should be interesting as we have competition for shoppers dollars. HD chickened out and pulled forward guidance. I didn't expect that but probably a good idea since the stock has spiked like nothing could possibly go wrong.

[fenders53]

Haven't updated this thread for six months so why not. I've worked for HD for over 25 months now. I continue to believe they are best in class in their niche. Still more efficient than Lowes though they have closed the gap some. As I've mentioned Lowes CEO brought some of our procedures to LOW and it was a wise move. We no longer grow sales twice as fast. hey stepped it up to at least 80% of HD now, and even better some recent quarters. HD has handled the Covid challenges better than I expected. Very few employee infections and the daily health screening has something to do with that, and general practices of course. Huge improvement in online and curbside pickup. They put a huge effort into navigating this.

I think HD is a "Hold" right now. LOW is a probably a weak buy after the small SP recovery last week. I even flipped some LOW shares. 2021 over 2020 COMPS are going to be VERY challenging for both HD and LOW after growing 25-30% instead of the usual 3-6%. Market may shrug it off, but I don't see a trigger for a big run unless the market loses it's mind. (yet again lol) Another factor is wage pressure and it's not going away. Amazon, Costco and Target really raised the bar with substantial minimum wage increases. HD responded with a weekly Covid pay kicker which lasted until last week. They ended that and just gave everyone a permanent raise that was about 75% of the bonus. I just received my fourth pay raise in two years. Still just a retired guy job of course but it's nice to be acknowledged and be paid a little better than most. I am SO thankful for the awesome job I had before I retired. I can't imagine trying to survive today and making $16-18/HR after 10+ years service, but that is just retail if you aren't managing a store..

I do look forward to adding significantly to my HD position but I really believe I'll have a chance to buy shares somewhat cheaper. I believe that is true for most big box retailers. They'll get hammered if a decent stimulus doesn't happen and unemployment rises with the latest Covid wave. I am as sure as one can be about that. The jury is out on holiday season shopping. It will probably be good enough.