(09-23-2019, 08:09 PM)fenders53 Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 05:41 PM)stockguru Wrote: JUUL did nothing wrong. The issue is copycat pods being made. The truth will come out soon Enough. MO will be back to $50 at some point.

The issue is also it's not too hard to make a case JUUL knew full well they were marketing to minors.  

***

Anyone want to explain to me why that's not a REAL big deal for more than a few weeks? 

(09-23-2019, 11:07 PM)Otter Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 08:09 PM)fenders53 Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 05:41 PM)stockguru Wrote: JUUL did nothing wrong. The issue is copycat pods being made. The truth will come out soon Enough. MO will be back to $50 at some point.

The issue is also it's not too hard to make a case JUUL knew full well they were marketing to minors.  

***

Anyone want to explain to me why that's not a REAL big deal for more than a few weeks? 

Sure. From a legal standpoint, the burden of proof required to prosecute Juul is actually quite stiff. There is no presumption of guilt, and any allegations of illegal marketing to minors must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a criminal conviction or to a substantial certainty for civil penalties.

That’s actually quite hard to do, absent a smoking gun. Juul’s counsel will have its own witnesses coached well enough to make meeting those burdens of proof quite difficult. Unless there’s an unambiguous email chain out there about marketing to teens, it’ll be hard to make a case. Juul can easily argue that the flavors were designed to entice adult cigarette smokers away from those harmful tobacco products to a safer alternative.

State attorneys general know this, and will posture their cases as ones where public perception and lengthy proceedings are harmful to Juul’s business (political pressure). Eventually a negotiated settlement is reached. Money gets paid, the attorneys general hold press conferences and dream of future gubernatorial or senate runs, maybe legislators enact some sin taxes to keep the money flowing in perpetuity, and people keep buying products they want.

Source - am jaded litigator

(09-23-2019, 10:59 PM)crimsonghost747 Wrote: Maybe we should have separate MO thread? 

(09-24-2019, 08:18 AM)fenders53 Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 11:07 PM)Otter Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 08:09 PM)fenders53 Wrote:

(09-23-2019, 05:41 PM)stockguru Wrote: JUUL did nothing wrong. The issue is copycat pods being made. The truth will come out soon Enough. MO will be back to $50 at some point.

The issue is also it's not too hard to make a case JUUL knew full well they were marketing to minors.  

***

Anyone want to explain to me why that's not a REAL big deal for more than a few weeks? 

Sure. From a legal standpoint, the burden of proof required to prosecute Juul is actually quite stiff. There is no presumption of guilt, and any allegations of illegal marketing to minors must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a criminal conviction or to a substantial certainty for civil penalties.

That’s actually quite hard to do, absent a smoking gun. Juul’s counsel will have its own witnesses coached well enough to make meeting those burdens of proof quite difficult. Unless there’s an unambiguous email chain out there about marketing to teens, it’ll be hard to make a case. Juul can easily argue that the flavors were designed to entice adult cigarette smokers away from those harmful tobacco products to a safer alternative.

State attorneys general know this, and will posture their cases as ones where public perception and lengthy proceedings are harmful to Juul’s business (political pressure). Eventually a negotiated settlement is reached. Money gets paid, the attorneys general hold press conferences and dream of future gubernatorial or senate runs, maybe legislators enact some sin taxes to keep the money flowing in perpetuity, and people keep buying products they want.

Source - am jaded litigator

I believe that or I wouldn't have added more shares.  You're the attorney so I'll ask a question.  I believe JUUL is safer, but can I claim my product is safer without proof it is safer?  That seems like something you can litigate.  A Federal criminal investigation has been launched against JUUL.  

In the end, this part of the industry gets regulated and all the taxes they can squeeze.  I'm just upset MO overpaid so much for only 1/3rd of JUUL.  I doubt JUUL would have sold at all if they didn't smell trouble.  MO is going to end up writing down half their investment in JUUL and that probably amounts to a year of cash flow.  Moves like these are how you put your dividend in peril.  I do have considerable trust in MO. It will be interesting to watch them dance through this minefield.  It will be interesting to see if PM is smart enough to back away until the dust clears some.

(09-25-2019, 07:09 AM)stockguru Wrote: Go Big MO

(09-25-2019, 09:04 AM)divmenow Wrote: I sold MO at $42.50 in the pre-market today. Took a small profit. Just too much uncertainty with this company. I would rather own PM so put the money over to that name.

(09-25-2019, 11:55 AM)saimash Wrote:

(09-25-2019, 09:04 AM)divmenow Wrote: I sold MO at $42.50 in the pre-market today. Took a small profit. Just too much uncertainty with this company. I would rather own PM so put the money over to that name.

Hello Divmenow -
What are your plans with CRON (are you still holding onto it).
I had purchased 300 shars @ 15.1 and am just watching it go down each day.

(09-25-2019, 11:59 AM)vbin Wrote:

(09-25-2019, 11:55 AM)saimash Wrote:

(09-25-2019, 09:04 AM)divmenow Wrote: I sold MO at $42.50 in the pre-market today. Took a small profit. Just too much uncertainty with this company. I would rather own PM so put the money over to that name.

Hello Divmenow -
What are your plans with CRON (are you still holding onto it).
I had purchased 300 shars @ 15.1 and am just watching it go down each day.

I bought a bunch recently ~10 and change.