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+--- Thread: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers (/showthread.php?tid=2001)
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
this is an interesting topic with some twists and turns imho
10 yr growth w/o reinvested dividends---yield---5 yr yield growth---payout %
bns 5.43%---4.64%---4.57%---50.35%
td 8.97%---3.79%---7.51%---40.67%
ry 10.49%---3.39%---5.92%---40.68%
bmo 8.53%---3.32%---4.27%---39.55%
vz 7.87%---4.7%---2.52%---53%
t 5.05%---7.65%---1.61%---(negative 670.97%)
bce 6.77%---5.38%---5.09&---117.45%
now some lower dividend payers but better growth
jpm 19.3%---2.48%---15.81%---26.68%
bac 21.34%---2.02%---22.87%---28%
wfc 9.34%---1.67%---(negative 12.05%)---23%
ozk 16.47%---2.71---12.24%---28%
c 11.57%---2.88%---26.09%---20.92%
gs 15.48%---2.04%---25.21%---14.63%
no dividend 10 yr average annual growth
tmus 22.06%
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
(09-26-2021, 08:53 AM)rayray Wrote: this is an interesting topic with some twists and turns imho
10 yr growth w/o reinvested dividends---yield---5 yr yield growth---payout %
bns 5.43%---4.64%---4.57%---50.35%
td 8.97%---3.79%---7.51%---40.67%
ry 10.49%---3.39%---5.92%---40.68%
bmo 8.53%---3.32%---4.27%---39.55%
vz 7.87%---4.7%---2.52%---53%
t 5.05%---7.65%---1.61%---(negative 670.97%)
bce 6.77%---5.38%---5.09&---117.45%
now some lower dividend payers but better growth
jpm 19.3%---2.48%---15.81%---26.68%
bac 21.34%---2.02%---22.87%---28%
wfc 9.34%---1.67%---(negative 12.05%)---23%
ozk 16.47%---2.71---12.24%---28%
c 11.57%---2.88%---26.09%---20.92%
gs 15.48%---2.04%---25.21%---14.63%
no dividend 10 yr average annual growth
tmus 22.06%
now, imho, all these investments are good investments but it puts things in perspective when you look at what your dollars has turned into the last ten years
using the above 10 year growth % for each here's what 100k invested in each of these companies has turned into (over the course of the last ten years) no dividends reinvested
tmus 730k
jpm 584k
bac 692k
wfc 244k
ozk 459k
c 299k
gs 422k
bns 170k
td 236k
ry 271k
cm 221k
bmo 227k
vz 212k
t 164k
bce 193k
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
the funny thing is before i grabbed these companies i considered wfc a horrible investment--because of all their issues the last several years and here looking at the total return it has actually done better then all the higher dividend payers over the course of the last ten years EXCEPT RY
now of course that's assuming one put in 100k ten years ago and didn't touch the money with no dividends reinvested
growth has been the clear winner the last ten years with this bull market--how long will this continue?? idk without the lost decade and the great recession we don't have this massive bull run....will value eventually do better then growth? idk
and we all know one can't go by past results for future gains
sure this thread might be centered towards INCOME for the retirement years but if one has enough money whats the difference if you're getting a 4% dividend or selling shares to get your 4%???
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
(09-25-2021, 01:48 PM)kblake Wrote: There are the ones I like
ENB (debt a bit high)
WPC
MMP
OHI
LTC
OKE
PEBO
10 year average growth (w/o dividend reinvestment) 100k initial investment
enb 5.95% 178k
wpc 11.31% 292k
mmp 9.93% 258k
ohi 11.97% 310k
ltc 7.4% 204k
oke 11.24% 290k
pebo 15.21% 412k
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
this is why warren buffett/charlie munger say one doesn't need to hit home runs to do well or make a lot of money in the market--a whole lot of singles and doubles will get the job done
all what one needs is a lot of time and patience while not become an erratic bipolar type investor
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - fenders53 - 09-26-2021
(09-26-2021, 09:22 AM)rayray Wrote: the funny thing is before i grabbed these companies i considered wfc a horrible investment--because of all their issues the last several years and here looking at the total return it has actually done better then all the higher dividend payers over the course of the last ten years EXCEPT RYOnly matters if you need income to live and we are in one of those pesky protracted downturns where you are selling shares at deep discounts. If you need high yield during accumulation phase you are investing more than you can actually afford. This is why cash buckets exist.
now of course that's assuming one put in 100k ten years ago and didn't touch the money with no dividends reinvested
growth has been the clear winner the last ten years with this bull market--how long will this continue?? idk without the lost decade and the great recession we don't have this massive bull run....will value eventually do better then growth? idk
and we all know one can't go by past results for future gains
sure this thread might be centered towards INCOME for the retirement years but if one has enough money whats the difference if you're getting a 4% dividend or selling shares to get your 4%???
And yes value will come back in style but it's hard to fully appreciate if your growth jusf got a big haircut
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
(09-26-2021, 10:12 AM)fenders53 Wrote:(09-26-2021, 09:22 AM)rayray Wrote: the funny thing is before i grabbed these companies i considered wfc a horrible investment--because of all their issues the last several years and here looking at the total return it has actually done better then all the higher dividend payers over the course of the last ten years EXCEPT RYOnly matters if you need income to live and we are in one of those pesky protracted downturns where you are selling shares at deep discounts. If you need high yield during accumulation phase you are investing more than you can actually afford. This is why cash buckets exist.
now of course that's assuming one put in 100k ten years ago and didn't touch the money with no dividends reinvested
growth has been the clear winner the last ten years with this bull market--how long will this continue?? idk without the lost decade and the great recession we don't have this massive bull run....will value eventually do better then growth? idk
and we all know one can't go by past results for future gains
sure this thread might be centered towards INCOME for the retirement years but if one has enough money whats the difference if you're getting a 4% dividend or selling shares to get your 4%???
And yes value will come back in style but it's hard to fully appreciate if your growth jusf got a big haircut
imho, it seems too many younger investors have gone after that dividend in the accumulation years
my mother and stepfather went completely broke during the great recession. due to health issues my step father retired in 2005 by 2010/11 his retirement savings was gone
i remember the great recession very well--my portfolio went down over 50%
we also have to remember dividend payers in bad markets are not necessarily the safe haven they might appear to be--there's been plenty of divi cuts and suspensions throughout the years
by nature i gravitate towards value but have a mix of growth and value with quite a few divi payers--my saving grace is 25 plus years in the market and not doing anything too crazy--i don't plan on changing strategy now or even through retirement--it's going to remain the same
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
in a strange twist the down markets is when the real money is made--either because still in the accumulation phase or a decent amount of cash sitting on the sidelines, maybe both--or one is just a high income earner with money to spare.
time in the market trumps almost everything
during the great recession lost 50% plus....went from 212k-214k to 104k....kept buying didn't look just kept buying even though all my friends kept telling me to sell
February 2020 broke 1mil in investments during the pandemic went down 749k-ish did the same thing kept buying even though a good friend begged me to sell--i said you learned nothing since the great recession? i said buy!! don't sell!! the pandemic was a devastating year for many people, including myself, but it was good, really good financially.
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - fenders53 - 09-26-2021
You and I actually invested similarly over the decades. Had some things I wanted to try the past few years and now I have. I invested a little too aggressively until 2018 but got by with it. I dodged the GFC dip with half my port. One time I tried to time the market and got lucky. I get a little scared with retirement so close. Trust me I could still get hurt but I am not going to lose half my net worth now. That would be foolish. I could live happily with a port yield of 4% forever. This was supposed to be easy now. And here we are with 2% long yields that have more capital risk than that. I can beat that with option tricks and incur similar risk. It would be simple with a market pullback. May sound hard to believe but it's true.
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - rayray - 09-26-2021
(09-26-2021, 06:54 PM)with easefenders53 Wrote: You and I actually invested similarly over the decades. Had some things I wanted to try the past few years and now I have. I invested a little too aggressively until 2018 but got by with it. I dodged the GFC dip with half my port. One time I tried to time the market and got lucky. I get a little scared with retirement so close. Trust me I could still get hurt but I am not going to lose half my net worth now. That would be foolish. I could live happily with a port yield of 4% forever. This was supposed to be easy now. And here we are with 2% long yields that have more capital risk than that. I can beat that with option tricks and incur similar risk. It would be simple with a market pullback. May sound hard to believe but it's true.
i get how you feel, no one wants to lose 1/2 their portfolio at or near retirement--one of my fears is another great recession type market right in the very beginning of retirement--i can handle a normal correction with ease.
if all goes as planned i'm 5 (minimum) to 10 (maximum) years away from retirement, unless i'm forced out sooner--then i'll deal with it if that day ever comes--hopefully not. my health scare ended up being just that--a scare--so i can go back to my normal plan.
i'm not adventurous enough for calls/puts--i have enough on my plate from many directions lol
i kind of come here and SA to relax lol--it's become my FB--plus i enjoy doing research on various companies.
and yes a 4% yielding portfolio is gravy
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - fenders53 - 09-27-2021
Yes a Great Recession type pullback is all I fear. I saw it adjust retirement dates. Add a ten year recovery and it's trouble. I really don't think the market is bubbly on that level. I don't worry about bank failure. But I also have zero trust in politicians not taking us off a money spending cliff eventually. We are now 20yrs into spending like it doesn't matter. Each regime making the last one look thrifty lol. I see no path back to normalcy. A majority of millennials wonder if they can ever buy a home. They are probably in no mood to pay up and fix our bankrupted pension funds. Damn boomers lol.
Now back to the thread. We need more 4% yielders soon lol.
RE: "Safe" medium yielders - the 4%ers - ken-do-nim - 09-27-2021
(09-27-2021, 06:36 AM)fenders53 Wrote: Yes a Great Recession type pullback is all I fear. I saw it adjust retirement dates. Add a ten year recovery and it's trouble. I really don't think the market is bubbly on that level. I don't worry about bank failure. But I also have zero trust in politicians not taking us off a money spending cliff eventually. We are now 20yrs into spending like it doesn't matter. Each regime making the last one look thrifty lol. I see no path back to normalcy. A majority of millennials wonder if they can ever buy a home. They are probably in no mood to pay up and fix our bankrupted pension funds. Damn boomers lol.
Now back to the thread. We need more 4% yielders soon lol.
Apparently the failed effort in Afghanistan cost $300 million per day. Per day!!! What a waste. At least that's over.
***
I recently made a small position in LYB; we'll see how it goes.